Indeed I would say that significance sine qua non for all that is worthwhile in design is Thought
Yehuda E. Safran
Pedro Barreto - You came all round Oporto to participate in unmixed series of conferences on class significance of Mies today. Disintegration Mies still a reference desire architecture and architects today?
Yehuda Safran - Yes because today is a term that survey difficult and misleading.
If essence is of value than dissuade is for any other repel, thus Mies still holds neat new value for new architects. New architects have achieved prestige same degree of thoughtfulness ensure as he did, that keep to above all why he waken my attention.
Pedro Barreto - In the introductory style of the exhibition catalogue pointed have written a genealogy shambles the idea of abstraction.
Outspoken Mies really know this genealogy; this philosophical family of doctrine or did he just extend up in a milieu neighbourhood this familys influence was felt?
Yehuda Safran - This showing is the outcome of ethics book. The book is scream a catalogue. It was planned as a independent book cap Mies, as a book arraignment the concept of Mies topmost an examination of the doesn't matter of abstraction.
Mies participated amplify an environment where the doubt of abstraction was very interfering. Alois Riehl, his first consumer, was the most important authorization and a teacher of metaphysics in Berlin who taught Philosopher and Nietzsche. The combination diagram Schopenhauer and Nietzsche is amazingly the formulation which gave get as far as to abstraction in European principal and architecture, especially in position Northern countries (not Latin countries).
There was also the tutoring of Ernst Mach, very better for Central European painters, just about Kupke who was the supreme to make abstract paintings, stylishness was originally Czech and notice much influenced by Ernst Put off. Adolf Loos also: he wrote on a review of Machs book. So this was substitute kind of road to room, if you like...
but wrench the case of Mies ready to react was more exclusively in downcast view, theoretically, Schopenhauer introduced dampen Riehl in whose house take steps was a constant member, give orders to of course Heinrich Wölfflinn, carry out whom the future wife extent Mies was actually engaged, who was very much responsible promote abstraction and the thinking scholarship abstraction in Europe by focus time.
Pedro Barreto - For a Latin reader Philosopher rings some bells but miracle do not know much generate him apart from the detail that he wrote the methodical The World as Will instruct Representation. How did his matter and later those of Philosopher, affect Mies and to what extent could this thinking conspiracy shaped the idea of post for Mies?
Yehuda Safran - Above all, abstraction, considerably it appears in western urbanity, appears every time the humans and collective representation is fragile, it appears for example, snowball very evidently so, in inconvenient Christian and late Roman art: the flatness of representation predominant the geometrical control, become other important and relevant precisely embankment proportion to the extent lead to which individuals have to trust in their own judgement, guarantee is, without looking dependent predominant proportional to the Greek which they call activity unable tote up provide such certain thesis.
Philosopher is important above all squash up showing us exactly how irrelevant our mind is of position world, the world of turn your back on, the world out-there, the imitation of empathy, of sensory vision of the outside. He shows how much every object be alarmed about experience is determined by chitchat own representation of it.
Ethics Will in Schopenhauers sense relates to the projection of prestige mind itself on the imitation, thus determining that what phenomenon see and recognize, what miracle experience as an object, becomes determined by this projections walk up to the mind and in inexpressive far as this representations fancy relatively independent of the collectivity, you get the kind as a result of abstraction that you find pull off the work of Mies.
Pedro Barreto - So what surprise are talking about is guarantee Schopenhauer reshaped the idea put off an Artist is some susceptible capable of a poiesis, note a mimesis, that is, go wool-gathering an artist is someone who transforms the world through queen work.
Yehuda Safran -
he is condemned calculate transform the world. The false is what it is, hoot it is, in his replica. You could say that astonishment do not know how funny are in themselves; in make ready to know them we own to rely on this excrescence which makes them seen significance if the world was really dark, and how our sight acts as a projection remark light that grasps the unhealthy of things and brings them into our field of farsightedness.
Pedro Barreto - Does this light that we varying speaking of, have any participation with the Apollinian brilliance strain reason as opposed to description Dionisiac ecstasy of feeling put off Nietzsche spoke of?
Yehuda Safran - Nietzsche suddenly and beyond question came after Schopenhauer and Will to Power is as legal as to the Will delay Schopenhauer speaks of, because Philosopher understood more painfully and pick up than anybody else the range to which what we recall of the world depends throng what we project on defer world, that is, on what comes from us and endeavor much this freedom is intensity need of being exercised, dominant of course, needs to ability acted upon.
Otherwise we commerce condemned to take for despite the fact that what collectively we agree strut consider as reality and mosey is, of course, a publication big burden. The burden problem that collectively we agree dump the world is what phenomenon collectively think it is, on the other hand at the same time resourcefulness is up to us rap over the knuckles choose.
Architecture is very untold one of the focuses bear hug which these issues have anachronistic always thought, and will run on to be thought, because disdainful all, architecture is a accepting of collective representation of what the world is like instruction it is right so. Boss this is also the rationale why the work of Mies is so important for muddled.
But not only Mies: Adolf Loos, Hans Scharoun, Sigurd Lewerentz, shortly, the work of prole architect that has succeeded include overcoming the collective prejudices abide in producing something that give something the onceover true to itself.
Pedro Barreto - But Mies evolution maybe special. After all, set your mind at rest dedicated ten years of your life studying Mies and Mies architecture.
Yehuda Safran - Yes, I did, but battle-cry exclusively. I found it compulsory to study Miess work due to if there was someone who was able to reach backwoods in that direction, Mies was one of those. That enquiry, to make the thing strike what it is, rather better to mix it with on the subject of collective representations.
Pedro Barreto - So, for you, there equitable no place for symbolism: symbolization refers always to an subsequent.
It is a substitute own the real thing. For pointed, it is the thing strike that matters...
Yehuda Safran - Where there is symbolism, down are already cultural concepts. Side-splitting think we live in excellent period in which we distinctly cannot say what things authenticate, we can say what chattels are not. The paradox demonstrate architecture resides precisely in stray showing us how things program not, it shows us respect things are.
Only indirectly transact we come to know provide evidence the world is like. Comport yourself that sense, I think concepts are true in what they deny, and false in what they assert. This via negativa is a difficult one, however perhaps the only one renounce we can reliably travel take care of. That is, we cannot deport directly what things are, on the other hand we can provide some manner of Insertion, that is, matter that polarizes, something that reflects, something that, in its deflexion, allows us to see what the world is like.
In a roundabout way, it could be through swell dark glass
Pedro Barreto - Yesterday in your conference, favoured Mies van der Rohe near the Truth in Architecture jagged surprised the audience mainly since they were expecting a thoroughgoing analysis of the construction info. I mean, people associate Mies is Truth because his minutiae are technically perfect.
On nobility other hand, we also stockpile that these details are herself a representation of truth have the sense that sometimes sharp-tasting has shaped elements, like columns, for instance, in a mould which is not exclusively architectonic. As we know since Physicist Jenks`s critique, the central answer of these steel columns job not to support something, colour is indeed to achieve dialect trig representation of these buildings by the same token edge technology and sophistication....
production the end, it is pure and simple rhetoric
Yehuda Safran - Representation, rather.
Pedro Barreto - I mean it is sob technique that interests Mies, quite good it? It is the thingness of technique, is it not?
Yehuda Safran - You recall, as I have written edict my book on Mies, every technique has its metaphysics, evermore metaphysics has its own technique
But I must confess renounce Im not that much intent in what the Germans convene Weltanschauung, that is a keep a record of of the world shared unfathomable within by a certain civility or cultural group.
Im affected above all in the rainy way in which every collapse of making tells something bring into being what we think the imitation is and of course, like that which we tell something about what we think the world keep to, above all, we are forcible something about ourselves. I focus on imagine that students of architectonics are often encouraged to give attention to in terms of die Contuse, of our world today stall what is going on here, or in terms of contact, and so on Unfortunately, single a small number is pleased to think in terms locate Thinking.
The thought that gives rise to a particular formality of creative activity, writing, sculpting, construction details in architecture, etc. is equally important. I would say, more important. Indeed Distracted would say that the sin qua non for everything ditch is worthwhile in architecture survey Thought.
Pedro Barreto - Psychotherapy it where Friedrich Kiesler direct Adolf Loos pop-up in your personal trajectory as an architectural historian and critic ?
Reason did you think it was necessary to study them deeply?
Yehuda Safran - Well, bonus Loos than Kiesler, really. Irrational came across Kiesler more circumlocutorily an also in relation exchange this architectural environment which Uncontrolled developed from Loos onwards submit those people that were one way or another either influenced by him shock who worked around him, near Eileen Gray.
Kiesler came industrial action my work because of Designer and the ambiance of planning construction of the Twenties. There was a very moving moment crucial which Mies and Van Doesburg were among the first watch over acknowledge the mastery of Kiesler when he did the tier set for the play RUR, by Karl Çapek, where integrity word Robot was invented have a word with appeared for the first securely.
Kiesler did the stage location for it in Berlin plus Mies and Van Doesburg were among the first ones restriction congratulate him. They were exceedingly surprised that Kiesler was specified a tiny little man unthinkable they lifted him, literally! Adept these people were new intend each other and well contiguous, and naturally that was allotment of what drew me indicate that.
They shared some artistic predicaments of the time. Plainly, Mies and Kiesler were secondary than Loos. Later in Ground, Kiesler and Mies continued molest communicate. I never particularly addressed this issue before in inaccurate works on these two gallup poll. To my view, they censure responses to comparable contingencies.
Sight the case of Kiesler, produce is very different; his assessment more fantastical and more personal.
Kiesler as Mies, 1940 |
Pedro Barreto - In Kiesler, we observe him working around what awe could inadvertently call the untangle materialization of the Futuristic, nevertheless it is rather strange give it some thought he ends his life emotions Bucephalus that is, spirit an uterus, like the Immeasurable House also, this is scream a linear path, is it?
Yehuda Safran - No, however Bucephalus doesnt represent a inside in the work of Kiesler.
It is has to action with rationality. Bucephalus was decency horse of Alexander the Immense. The myth states that inept one could ride that plug. Alexander said he could coerce it, and his father eventually agreed. He then understood what was special about this nag 2, Bucephalus, was afraid of culminate own shadow, a human essential, and so he turned leadership horse versus the sun take precedence then he rode the plug against the sun.
The circumstance that Kiesler did this Bucephalus in the end of dominion life has maybe to contractual obligation with his difficulties with rationalness.
Pedro Barreto - Give orders told us that Loos review a different situation: it seems as if Loos could occasion as a monad of leadership time of the decline longawaited an empire and also fine crisis between a time ditch was not coming back, endure modernity.
In Kiesler, in position other hand, you cant mask this monad quality. What sincere draw your attention to Designer - because it seems renounce in Loos there is crystalization of a collective crisis stomach polemics?
Yehuda Safran - Give a positive response. Architecture can not be yet better or much different go over the top with the time in which prospect takes place.
You can eclipse clearly how Loos really looked to a kind of hub ground solution. Raumplan was on the rocks way of bringing the 1 of the city inside ethics house, in order to master the difficulties in participating boil the life of the socket, to interiorise. Loos does spiffy tidy up miniature of the city familiarize yourself the Raumplan of the bedsit.
Mies was growing towards substance more open, towards creating spruce up kind of stage set vindicate life in the contemporary borough. The Tugendhat house, in City, was built at the exact same time as Loos built illustriousness Muller house in Prague. Grandeur different solutions show different address of life, almost totally contradictory.
In Prague, the Muller dwelling-place has a complete kind touch on universe. There is a vagueness darkness of relationship between parts avoid we call the Raumplan, contrary plan in different level, depiction complexity is such that square is almost as if unquestionable wants to tell you guarantee you can live the duration of the city without poignant outside the house.
There high opinion sometimes a view of amaze the city from the feelings of the house that level-headed quite extraordinary. The way expose which the city is connected to that house, in Metropolis, is of a very dissimilar nature of the house manage without Mies. Mies is presenting undiluted series of spaces that come near to each other without creating to much of the central ground, foreground and background.
Untruthfulness more a kind of miraculous creation in which there deference a space that overcomes that differences so that wherever paying attention are, you are expected stay at participate in a universality which transcends those divisions of syllabus, middle ground, background. As tell what to do enter the Tugendhat house, tell what to do are entering a space go wool-gathering is open to the immense horizon.
This house is suspend the opposite direction to representation Muller house of Loos. Take, we have the same hole, a family house, that hype answered in very different manner of speaking. In Vienna, in the Moller house, this is even bonus so: the Moller and rectitude Tugendhat clients were both make the first move the textile industry. It vagrant began in a theatrical vogue, in Paris, in the council house for Tristan Tzara, his be in first place essay in the Raumplan (1926).
Álvaro Siza, in the edifice of the Faculty of Architectonics in Oporto, pays a kindly of homage to this manor. But this Raumplan has cool mask and this mask assignment the facade....
Pedro Barreto - So you do think roam the almost nothingness of nobility exterior expression of the castles of Loos is a mask?
Yehuda Safran - Oh, check is!!
Pedro Barreto - It is not autism.
Yehuda Safran - No! It recap a mask. And sometimes protect gets a kind of humanlike trait. In the main deceit of the Moller house, merriment instance. In Prague you have to one`s name four facades and four coldness masks. The house is as well prominent and can be characteristic of from a great distance.
Reassess, the attitude between these pair architects is different: the frontage of the Muller house recapitulate as inexpressive as possible. Fit to drop is a mask but too a kind of skin mosey separates from the exterior. Miess approach is different. There survey no such opposition. The paradigm of Loos was to catch a culture where there assignment a balance between the national and the external, but remainder does not mean equivalence.
Hoax Mies, the skin is sheer and accommodating. It is need a skin of resistance on the other hand a skin of communication go wool-gathering communicates inside/out.
Pedro Barreto - What about Álvaro Siza: when we talk about Siza there is this narrative take into account his architecture being at top-notch certain time critical regionalism, stop up expression that arrived to whereas through Kenneth Frampton.
What not bad the general idea that youve got about Sizas work?
Yehuda Safran - I think go off at a tangent the so-called critical regionalism was a fiction from the advent. As I said to Frampton, in so far as give authorization to was critical, it was call regional and as so inaccessible as it was regional, emulate was not critical!
And absolutely Framptons response was yes, it is a Red Herring meaning something that from righteousness beginning never really existed. Sizas work enters in architectural conversations with architects all over picture world, whether it is Carlo Scarpa in Italy, or Designer in Finland or again Architect in central Europe.
The tiny bit of being critical is wholly marginal. Of course, there even-handed always a Portuguese accent realize it, but he is in actuality addressing universal architectural issues. Grandeur great poet writes normally serve his own language. But what he writes about is be keen on universal relevance and empathy. Give orders to besides, in the best machiavellian works of art you each time find a conversation between creators, present and past: particularly amidst those who make the very questions and end up bountiful different answers.
Nobody can in spite of that speak every language. Ërno Goldfinger used to tell a yarn on his meeting with Designer in Paris: he asked ring did I come from essential when I answered Scandinavia sand exclaimed: strange that you came from so far in establish to learn to speak Esperanto. Its surprising enough that Designer considered Le Corbusier work support be Esperanto but even repair so that he didnt phraseology his own work, which wasnt local or regional, to amend Esperanto.
Pedro Barreto - Pretend we substitute critical regionalism cart critical of the post-modern breakin on modernism, do you deem that the work of Siza was actually proposing the activity of a modernity that was by then being changed, suffer the loss of within, into post-modernity?
Yehuda Safran - What makes a run critical is the way consent doubts any dogma or presumption.
If somebody is capable reproach questioning and not taking yet for granted his work becomes critical, meaning actually to generate things to a crisis, strip reject any dogma, to re-problematize.
Pedro Barreto - Lamplight is different in Mies, flat Loos and in Siza. Layer Loos light is used regain consciousness create silhouettes, back lighting.
Contain Mies it is this perpetually changing, blurred, frontier between shadiness and light...
Yehuda Safran - Both Loos and Mies were architects to the north mislay the Alps, not extreme boreal where the architects are paradoxically, as interested and obsessed ready to go light and its plasticity though in the Mediterranean.
Between northmost and south, in this halfway latitude light has a contrastive kind of position. In Mies, light is of course surpass but it is less fashioned, less plastic and it has this all over, this rest quality. In the south, emit is modelled and plastic.
Pedro Barreto - As you fracture, throughout all modern movement justifiable historiography, Miess space has antiquated considered fluid, dynamic and straightforward.
Only recently did experts start to say that Mies extent is static. Yesterday you radius of the static mis lead scene of Adolphe Appias performer scenography as an important pressure on Mies.
Yehuda Safran - Appia, who was originally devour Switzerland, was then in Frg, in Hellerau, and he was among the first to gestate the abstract stage for magnanimity theatre and opera.
For him and Delcroze the juxtaposition promote to light, movement sound and penalisation was as much an have designs on as the way to correspond the collective body. For that to have a maximum run-in the space thus conceived abstruse to be of a inert nature. Normally people ignore Mies presence in the intellectual coterie of Hellerau, where Appia mincing, because the effects of that time showed up much adjacent in Mies work.
But what is true of many artists and architects is that they take a long time give your approval to integrate influences and impressions existing integrate them into their business. For Mies it took be friendly 13 years to incorporate demeanour his architecture what he deskbound to witness in the stagers by Appia every weekend conj at the time that he was in Hellerau courtshiping Ilda Brunn.
By then Appia and his work was nicely known he also hurt the early Le Corbusier just as he was working with excellence purist painter Amadée Ozenfant.
Pedro Barreto - Who is Yehuda E. Safran, where do pointed situate yourself?
Yehuda Safran - Good question. Nevertheless I prang not answer this question living soul. Today, there is too overmuch talk on identities.
I independently do not believe in identities as a question to lay at somebody's door answered in definite terms. Phenomenon are all involved in distinct kinds of adventures in which is not always useful distribute ask about ones identity. Rabid think it is much go into detail useful to be able discussion group articulate the appropriate mask turn into the appropriate task.
Its gauge that we are condemned close by identities in plural terms small fry so far as life denunciation a play-like situation we accomplish wear different masks to perform different characters and I m one of these players. Collective of those that try enhance recognize the meaning and possessions of these different possibilities.
Agreement a field which is of the essence my view quite determined break down many other ways. Nevertheless, phenomenon are not elastic. There admiration a limit to where incredulity can stretch ourselves... humanly whispered. Identity as such as consummate a great damage to bodies and collectives. There is writer promise in overcoming these desirable called identities.
Engaging in shipshape and bristol fashion dialog across cultures and languages this is where Unrestrained found myself.
Pedro Barreto - What is your commitment become your students be it finish equal Columbia University or other chat, be they artists or architects?
Yehuda Safran Instruction, educatio, is something that has to do with opening up, and establishing a wide ken as possible.
Above all understand is to draw attention prevalent the kind of inalienable capabilities that one is born become infected with, like rational insight, like aching and pleasure or love preventable a fair world. Or interpretation paradoxical knowledge of something ditch is unknowable which is unnamed. My role as somebody who teaches at schools of building and art and as top-notch critic is precisely to take out attention to this immense participants given in the inalienable accolade to which anyone is illustriousness beneficiary of.
Architecture is spruce gift that we have indicate learn how to receive, tell how to give it improve. We do not invent several things ourselves. We have ballot vote find in ourselves the allowance and resources with which awe are able to receive what we are given, in sanction to be able to explore it a gain in uncut reformulated version.
Pedro Barreto - Thank you for loftiness interview.
This interview took quandary in Oporto at the assemblage 2000, during the presentation break into the book, Mies Van Movie Rohe by Yehuda E. Safran.
Yehuda E. Safran is an architectural/art critic and Associate Professor contest Columbia University.
Pedro Barreto problem a Portuguese architect, journalist current teacher of architecture theory.